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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago

the worst psy-op of all time comes in many forms but reduces to "bad is good, actually"

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11/26/2023
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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanvalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean first eg that comes to mind https://t.co/s4Uhg2QDcD

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanvabout 4 years ago

@webdevMason People throw around “Orwellian” a lot but you could totally put this passage in a book about an authoritarian dystopia without changing a word https://t.co/pENEY7mnqd

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

once you've admitted 0=1 into your value system, you can use that to prove all sorts of ridiculousness in math: 0+1=1+1 ➡️ 1 = 2 10¹=10² ➡️ 10 = 100 i¹=i² ➡️ i = -1 in values: 😳 suffering is pleasure, actually 🚩 cruelty is love, actually ☝️ bullshit is true, actually

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11/26/2023
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andrew (in CS teacher mode) 🌹@__drewfacealmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean i always recommend my friends who are trying to "develop taste" play a rapid game of <this is good / this is bad> basically, you just scroll through a diverse set of pictures, like the ones on midjourney dot com and say "good - bad - good - good - bad" instinctually.

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11/26/2023
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andrew (in CS teacher mode) 🌹@__drewfacealmost 2 years ago
Replying to @__drewface

@Malcolm_Ocean you can do the same thing with furniture designs or interior decoration or architecture. the goal is to answer within <1 second and move on. the point isn't "rightness", but to realize that if you give yourself time to justify your choice, you can psyop yourself into anything

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11/26/2023
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andrew (in CS teacher mode) 🌹@__drewfacealmost 2 years ago
Replying to @__drewface

@Malcolm_Ocean also helps get rid of the social conditioning of "everything is good, to someone" we live in *such* a relativistic value system that everyones reaction is like "well i can see how this could be good in some cases" it's a good instinct for compromise, but bad for taste.

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11/26/2023
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andrew (in CS teacher mode) 🌹@__drewfacealmost 2 years ago
Replying to @__drewface

@Malcolm_Ocean people can sense when a person has a "cohesive" set of values. Values play well together, little dissonance, only in edge cases Many different geometries can all be valid systems, but you can't just mix and match the systems. Value dissonance. https://t.co/J91s80pySR

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanvalmost 2 years ago

i don't mean this as a dunk or anything i mean like it's straightforwardly tragically true. being out of alignment with yourself is going to cause problems https://t.co/esBSSCIGgn

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @__drewface

@__drewface yeah, proper pluralism is more subtle than "everything is good, to someone" not everything that is good to you is good to everyone but something being good for someone else DOES NOT mean it's good for you. that doesn't follow at all. fish need water. birds need sky.

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@__drewface but some things are just actually bad to take an extreme example, nuclear explosions aren't a good place for any kind of life to live sort of related to how https://t.co/q1e9TRHJVQ

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 2 years ago

observation: it seems possible for advice to be universally bad, but not possible for advice to be universally good

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

there's one version of this that has its roots in certain strains of christianity, maybe particularly calvinism but I recently heard that it goes all the way back to Luther and the protestant reformation https://t.co/n6TVlYt4yr

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 3 years ago

I've had some convos with people where they've described Calvinism as the source of a pernicious subtle meme that's something like "suffering is actually good and pleasure is actually bad" Can someone confirm & give context/source?

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11/26/2023
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Aleksi Liimatainen@aleksil79almost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean i want to say they unearthed something that was latent in christianity. acceleration more than introduction

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

but of course part of this goes to the root of christianity as a shift from 🔴 good vs bad — power is good, weakness sucks ("might makes right") to 🔵 good vs evil — law & love is good, selfishness sucks (righteousness) https://t.co/KIWfHeJSQg https://t.co/ccF4mzP3Zx

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Aleksi Liimatainen@aleksil79almost 2 years ago

@Malcolm_Ocean i want to say they unearthed something that was latent in christianity. acceleration more than introduction

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

and Nietzsche framed this in terms of master morality & slave morality (my fav source on this is this great long vid) https://t.co/G75PC39rBj

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

and aspects of this are a psy-op BUT! the psy-op works in part because there's a way in which it IS god's will to shift from pure egocentric conquering into higher-order social systems (much as it is/was god's will to form planets, life, multicel life.,) https://t.co/uzbhD7Gfuv

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago

a godless universe could exist in principle but it isn't very likely to have evolved and if it did evolve it wouldn't develop life anyway sent tweet

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

and then there's a sense in which aligning with god's will, the dao, the meta-protocol, the upward spiral... creates harmony and flow but don't confuse that for the will of the church or whatever (and the church would love to have you confuse those) https://t.co/XNAv1VUvMl

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Fun Pilgrim@tasshinfoglemanalmost 2 years ago

"Permeating all is the law of God. Disobey it and you feel unhappiness: you feel separated from God. Obey it and you feel harmony: you feel close to God. As you live in harmony with divine law you will feel closer to and develop more love for God."— Peace Pilgrim

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

and in particular, @Morphenius and I recently noticed that a particularly pernicious flavor of psyop involves giving people attachment trauma and then calling disobedience from authority "disobedience of god" and then saying "that pain is sep from god" https://t.co/vAf14GkFVP

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Morphenius he and I are still early stages of workshopping these ideas—more to come! this other tweet is definitely relevant, though might need revising (maybe because "separate from god/universe" is actually an illusion/psyop) https://t.co/PSfazRAcgC

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 2 years ago

seems like shame is the experience of being separate  from god   from ones' parents    from ones' peers     from the universe and the sense of wrongness/mistake about that (which can feel like "I fucked up" or "the universe is wrong")

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11/26/2023
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QC@QiaochuYuanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean @Morphenius @JakeOrthwein has relevant thoughts / threads, y'all should talk!

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11/26/2023
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QC@QiaochuYuanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@Malcolm_Ocean @Morphenius @JakeOrthwein representative sample https://t.co/8SIPvsX2uY

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan @Morphenius @JakeOrthwein yo @JakeOrthwein me & @Morphenius are planning to record a call at 3:30pm pacific on tuesday about this stuff, want to join? (DM me if so—I am very bad at twitter notifications)

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11/27/2023
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QC@QiaochuYuanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean @Morphenius @JakeOrthwein 🫡🫡🫡

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11/27/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Morphenius stepping back from the "this childhood pain you experienced because adults were cruel to you is actually a sign you're disconnected from god" psyop to the original topic of the bad=good psyop QC has a great thread on this here: https://t.co/sUNqNQK3oC

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QC@QiaochuYuanover 3 years ago

one of the first things you learn when you start writing mathematical proofs is the principle of explosion: from a single false premise you can derive any conclusion, true or false. interesting to reflect on how this has shaped my thinking and orientation towards truth

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11/27/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

want to make the world a better place? don't get confused into thinking you should do so by inserting pain in the place you can be most certain it matters, for the theoretical benefit for others who may not even notice https://t.co/YT6a43o1hf

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tess@xsphialmost 2 years ago

the sacrificecels don't want you to know this but one of the most ethical and pro-social things you can do it be happy

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11/27/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

oh here is an awesome thread exploring this from a personal morality perspective (and talking about how the psy-op gets you) whereas mine is more historical and spiritual https://t.co/h4CalWQ4Uk

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Hazard@natural_hazardalmost 2 years ago

there's lots of memes that try and turn people evil with a message of "there's no such thing as virtue, there is only vice" these memes are aided by the massive amounts of hypocrisy that exists. there's no shortage of people doing gnarly shit while trying to look virtuous

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11/27/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

hmmmmm is this fact (insofar as it's true) upstream of or downstream of the "bad is good, actually" meme? https://t.co/3Hl9Xrah5h

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12/2/2023
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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanvalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean feels parallel, a manifestation/representation of

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12/2/2023
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Aleksi Liimatainen@aleksil79almost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean real manifestations of evil tend to feel better than this because they come intertwined with bent-out-of-shape good

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12/2/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

> too often in queer culture I get the sense of people wanting to tear it all down, to deny any distinction between good and bad, to forestall any examination of whether a choice is worth making so long as it transgresses https://t.co/YwplAJvDrM

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TracingWoodgrains@tracewoodgrainsabout 1 year ago

Reflecting on this from the other side: I am gay, but I have never been drawn to the "queer community" this user sketches out. Why not? Its aesthetics are off. Its culture is off. It misses a crucial element. It is insufficiently beautiful, so I wander elsewhere. This will be a half-formed thought, and one that treads in sensitive waters—please bear with me as I think out loud. "Queer culture" is fundamentally oppositional: it exists in a spirit of tearing down norms, of defying standards, of spitting in the face of expectations and celebrating people for being precisely who they want to be. I resonate with a certain amount of that. I left Mormonism, after all. I married another man. I playact as a golden jackal on the internet. But queer culture, to me, misses a crucial step: if you want to tear something down, you ought to provide something better to replace it with. Want to transgress? Do it right. In queer culture, I feel I am expected to clap and cheer as soon as someone transgresses a norm: a man in a dress! a movie about gay culture! two women kissing! How bold, how provocative, how queer! But what of the second step? How does he look in the dress? does it flatter his form; is it becoming? does it make him beautiful in a bold new way, or does it make you wince and turn away? do you admire him because you cannot help but be entranced, or do you admire him because you are afraid not to? The movie—is it good? does it strike your soul? does it speak forth some impossible beauty, touch on core truths about the human condition? or is it like Bros, garish and ungainly and daring people to dislike it so it can sneer and say it always knew you hated the gays. And the couple: is their relationship healthy? are they good for each other, good for the world around them? are they oriented towards meaning, perhaps towards raising a family? are their lives richer and better for it, and can you say it if they are not? Every new generation tears down some walls its parents and grandparents built. That is well and good. Times change, the world changes, we march ever onward. But too often in queer culture I get the sense of people wanting to tear it all down, to deny any distinction between good and bad, to forestall any examination of whether a choice is worth making so long as it transgresses. And I have never wanted to merely be one who tears structures down. I do not transgress old norms for the sake of transgression, but out of a conviction that something yet better is possible. If I am not achieving something good, I want my friends to have space to judge me and push me higher. Many LGBT people, I believe, take the same approach. My sentiment is consonant with that of many of my LGBT friends. But it is not a sentiment that has ever sat comfortably with the culture OP gestures towards. I would be thrilled to fit into a broader LGBT culture, but transgression is not enough. It must cultivate excellence.

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6/22/2024
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QC@QiaochuYuanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean ayo https://t.co/a2duwCmU5y

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QC@QiaochuYuanover 3 years ago

i do think though that the principle of explosion correctly points towards the consequences of holding a false belief sufficiently *rigidly* and *globally*. if there's a thing you've decided is always good or always bad, and you're committed to ignoring exceptions...

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11/26/2023
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Ra is DJing at Cascade Camp 9-12 to 9-15@slimepriestessalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean yeah, they just push an outrageous falsehood that you can't believe they're saying on you while noselling anything you do to demonstrate it's falsehood. it's gaslighting. https://t.co/oTGSOszFXS

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11/26/2023
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RomeoStevens@RomeoStevens76almost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean 'beauty is ugly, because separation from it feels bad'

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11/26/2023
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QC@QiaochuYuanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean this is maybe my favorite tweet of yours ever

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11/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan I've been saying it for awhile and it just suddenly occurred to me I hadn't actually tweeted it https://t.co/rV1udXsScG

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11/26/2023
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QC@QiaochuYuanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean the tweets arrive on the TL when it is their time 🫡

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11/26/2023