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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago

the number one rule of animism is start with what you can touch and see if you're not living by the ocean, don't... start with the ocean. start with the phone you can see

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

because you can see it. touch it. this is what animism is. normative consciousness. it is not some thing over there you have been in non-negotiable contact with objects and their forces your entire life. it's not been an option for your body to not be

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

don't imagine the ocean. look down at the water you drink. it is going to enter you, and come out as pee. that's animism (to have a relationship to that water)

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

that's closer animism than singing about earth & fire & water in a campfire with people who're barely thinking about those words as they sing them. animism is most often ordinary

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

animism doesn't have a specific aesthetic because it's participation in your reality

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

if you're in a yurt, trying to root into the earth, don't imagine an earth. you don't need to imagine anything. connect with the yurt first. you will become aware of the earth underneath you. the actual earth. not imagined

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

^ this borrowed from @relic_radiation sharing her experience. follow her. she's been on this path longer than me

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

whatever your mind experienced, it's not been an option for your body to not be animist

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

it's only when we think animism is some nature thing other cultures did, we run away we imagine the earth below us. instead of notice the actual one, sitting below the actual concrete jungle floor

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

animism is not an aesthetic it's a relationship to the world

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

because for most of human history, animism has not been an -ism it's just been... the way things are like that's just what direct experience of the world is like animism is normative consciousness https://t.co/E3vVBypc62

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

"animism is normative consciousness" taken directly from a podcast episode from The Emerald of the same name https://t.co/WKCX6m0jmo

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

nothing needs to be done to have a relationship to animacy but things can be done to deepen it, things our ancestors knew to do, part intuited, part inherited offering feeding listening singing

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

what we might call "animism" then is just familiarity and skill navigating these experiential realities https://t.co/x9lvwmI3sx

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago

animism is not a belief system. it's navigating experiential realities

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

it can be something like this https://t.co/033wX664ol

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Elena Lake 🌿@relic_radiationalmost 2 years ago

my main “meditative” practice is spending at least 1hr a day sensorially checking in with the rhythms of local nature this looks like: walking, saying hi to the local crows, touching lots of plants, attuning to the seasonal shifts in the trees & sunlight & smell of the air https://t.co/gwQrhx1WoR

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

elena is not imagining the crows or singing to an ocean far away she went outside https://t.co/CT5jb9SJoA

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago

something @jessicamalonso said a long time ago that echoes in my head: "they want to solve the problem without leaving the house. but step 1 is like, leaving the house"

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

imagining crows & singing to oceans far away is also animacy because thought & memory & imagination are animate but in a world steeped in abstraction & devoid of sense memory, any attempt at it not grounded in the tangible & local first risks being abstraction, aestheticised

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

good point "animism is normative consciousness" is kind of a pained phrase but the gesture of it is... the world is already alive, just look the world is already alive, look https://t.co/7xgXDIWW7n

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago

@AskYatharth to be clear, I love your thread and the point you're making. it's amazing, and I'm glad I can now get the point without having to listen to this guy say that dumb catchphrase so many times https://t.co/ocxf1BWlWI

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eigenrobot@eigenrobotalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@AskYatharth i was trying to gesture at this here i think https://t.co/wX9SjzW7G2

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eigenrobot@eigenrobotabout 2 years ago

one curious feature of language is gender https://t.co/Qy6WNUCaAa

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @eigenrobot

@eigenrobot ah, fascinating. the origins of gender and animacy! https://t.co/Ui5oMxrj9N

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eigenrobot@eigenrobotabout 2 years ago

PIE grammatical gender, in its earliest forms, knew neither male nor female Instead, its "gender" was divided by _animacy_: was a thing's nature alive and agentic, or passive and inert? So did our forebears perceive the world

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthover 1 year ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

one of those questions that sort of encapsulates the whole thing >What does it mean to live in a profoundly alive world? https://t.co/5qPjeUqSh6

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthover 1 year ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

oh, and in case "phones" don't feel a topic for animists https://t.co/qSgIG9QSRL

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthover 1 year ago

i didn't realise this, but we live in the stone age. except our stones are quartz and silicon and live in our pockets humanity has never quite escaped stone. the various ages of european pre-history, the stone age, bronze age, iron age, and now, the silicon age, all stone ages

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@AskYatharth ugh don't spread the "animism is normative consciousness" meme. at least not in that phrasing, in which basically every morpheme has the opposite connotation from what it's trying to mean https://t.co/r52X8zGYbl

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 3 years ago

@relic_radiation "normative" implies that it's right via some codified rule, some cultural convention *normal* consciousness is better insofar as "normal" means "typical" and he's saying "99.9% of humans ever", though it still means "conforming" which is the OPPOSITE of saying it's natural! https://t.co/iiSxkUOBnR

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@AskYatharth to be clear, I love your thread and the point you're making. it's amazing, and I'm glad I can now get the point without having to listen to this guy say that dumb catchphrase so many times https://t.co/ocxf1BWlWI

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 3 years ago

@relic_radiation I started listening to this and ragequit after 15 minutes because I couldn't stand how he kept just repeating the phrase "animism is normative consciousness" he didn't have the courage to drop the -ism, despite decrying it and "normative" means the opposite of what he wants

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean thank you, now that i think about it, it's a pained phrase, in that its straining to communicate something awesome but making like a sacrifice with language that's not worth it it's self-defeating https://t.co/NiZRqdkdxf

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago

good point "animism is normative consciousness" is kind of a pained phrase but the gesture of it is... the world is already alive, just look the world is already alive, look https://t.co/7xgXDIWW7n

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@Malcolm_Ocean The Emerald is simultaneously my new favourite podcast but i remember it still feeling... anthropological still intellectually gawking, instead of being from within Braiding Sweetgrass feels very different. it's from within the thing, sharing out

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@Malcolm_Ocean which... to be fair... i met the guy, and he's careful to say he's not a traditional lineage holder. just a guy who studied this stuff but there's a way i could imagine of simply *speaking* from within whatever he has rooted in his life and is sprouting back out

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Elena Lake 🌿@relic_radiationalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

two points here for @Malcolm_Ocean - I actually asked Josh about this phrasing and he says his choice of the word “normative” was a direct response to some other anthropologist who used that word. so he’s like “yah I probably could have used a better word” but now it is an artifact of attention fossils and physics - the repetition of it is part of the trance, storytelling atmosphere. so if it stylistically grates on you that’s why, it might be a genre you’re not used to or perhaps simply don’t like

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @relic_radiation

@relic_radiation @AskYatharth no no, repeating a phrase is great! the phrase is just extremely bad. and in particular, that phrase was bad for repeating, because the trance it was trying to take me into was afaict in the OPPOSITE direction of animacy-primacy (which is how I might put it)

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@relic_radiation @AskYatharth "animacy is primal consciousness" play on words here with "primal" but it'll be lost on most and probably miss the point "primitive"? "primary"? I like the word "primacy". "prior"? "foundational"?

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@relic_radiation @AskYatharth I think he is/was actually confused, also, like he DID seem to be trying to make a commonness-to-normativity argument, which again: opposite direction from early consciousness, which was (as far as I can tell from what I've stared at) profoundly non-normative & non-argumentative

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@Malcolm_Ocean i'm thinking about it more and wtf... normative is like the exact opposite word? lmao i can see how if you were thinking about the word, it would strike someone as so wrong (i was not thinking too much while listening)

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@Malcolm_Ocean also i want to clarify this thread is a point im making, not the episode it's something i had to make, to stay grounded as i explore a relationship with animacy closer

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanalmost 2 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@AskYatharth yeah it made me completely unable to take that guy seriously like it would be one thing if he just uttered the phrase once as a throwaway, but he like... devotes himself to it! he repeats it so many times!!

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