🧵 View Thread
🧵 Thread (79 tweets)
Enlightenment is not magic. There is still some guiding of perception involved that shaped what happens. But there is a continual wake of choice and freeing and barbed wire gates coming down. Which itself hurts in a good way but definitely a painful way.
Enough talking. Here is the link to the video. Topic: 🌟 Hanjo: observer/observed duality Date: Jan 7, 2021 04:50 PM Stanford, California Meeting Recording: https://t.co/O9mlhFkWfC
What I would say to myself from a couple days ago is that enlightenment is not an all-or-nothing deal. There can be an allowing of moderate enlightenment-esque experiences, and that itself is quite freeing/awakening/smoothing to reality’s experience.
It’s important to do weird stuff to feel like yourself. For me, that’s REJECING enleightenment. No I don’t wanna do it! (not saying I won’t i just might) But I am FREE to say NO and so my own body can SEE in me doing this i am free! https://t.co/roEL61HrcW
My conversation with Hanjo started when he replied to my thread with sth seemingly unrelated. I didn’t understand observer/observed duality at all, and his word “edginess” evoked sth for me but I didn’t know what. I felt curious and scheduled a call. https://t.co/ETKsY6FaKd
It’s really nice to be able to go piecemeal. Really fucking nice. Just pick up the parts I want to. (Knowing it will surface all its links.) And not pretend to care or strive to fit into my time parts I don’t feel compelled to pick up.
Not saying piecemeal can get you to enlightenment (and heck I haven’t decided in the LEAST that I want to attain it!). But there is a time and place where realising pieacemeal is possible unblocks you and that is where I was.
@AskYatharth i got started down this road by hearing the term Kensho which i translate as Insight - a single glimpse of nondual truth that dissolves a barrier in your perception, and allows you to see further a useful semi-enlightenment mark
What do you do after/with the intensity once it passes? I liked Hanjo’s answer. Just it be and gestate. Important processing work going on there. It really fixed something that felt desperate re: intense experiences because I thought I had to capture or sustain then somehow.
Thread on why I like talking Hanjo. - i can take long pauses - i don’t have to LARP studentness https://t.co/EWVcK3cIus
It’s so incredible to be anti-psy-opped this way. I can let someone’s teaching in fully without the cost of suppresing my intuition. A non-naïve trust dance, as Malcolm Ocean would say. https://t.co/e0WpSjgid5
DMs for desserts 1/n https://t.co/5URmhFUCkO
@AskYatharth blammojammo https://t.co/PWSYHEMvhM
Wtf does it even mean to know? Like who is doing the knowing? What separation is there between me and the thing being known? That itself is a construction. So a thing knowing itself? This is just literally true in the most boring yet important way possible.
@AskYatharth (+@HanjoYoutaku because who doesn't love notification-spam) it's so interesting to watch this, thank you both for sharing in particular, audio+video gives so much more insight into either party than a textual exchange 😁
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku one thing that's immediately clear is the difference in body language between you two Hanjo is more fidgety and is only occasionally making eye-contact whereas Yatharth is more still? comes to rest at times. pauses. seems to fixate on an idea for moments at a time
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku user avatar Hanjo Youtaku 00:15:49 What do you say the lemon user avatar Yatharth 00:15:50 Lemon lemon user avatar Hanjo Youtaku 00:15:52 The lemon olive. They live it. Yeah. --- poor transcription cannot grasp the liminality xD
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 17:49 the you who observes the you who's experiencing who saw what, and who felt which? neither nor and either or 18:40 "sounds good" that's it working (overthinking / overanalyzing / separates the body from the mind)
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 20:47 time-skipping is something we do all the time, just on multiple "threads" our senses aren't actually in sync you could imagine a groove for each sense recording at different rates, with differing lag being played back as a purely physical phenomenon to say nothing of -
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 25:00 "yeah i'm quite selfless" lol so that plus time being of little issue is the sort of thing i'd expect from enlightened beings (who volunteer for this sort of thing to be clear) 26:45 Yatharth your eyes have this searching intensity in them (looks like you reading email)
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku i observe myself reading ahead in the transcript during quiet moments which is sub-ideal for a few reasons one that text doesn't fully cover it: https://t.co/CiMIbRBH6y two that i'm being impatient vs just cruising with it
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 30:55 the meta-observer is just another observer (and there is no observer, is the contention) https://t.co/kQfpzIm8Ay "you" are an observer? well which one. can you point to it? how did you do that "I used a mirror!" what's that
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 34:48 "feels like you're affecting me" i mean heisenberg's uncertainty personality would say that's always true https://t.co/f0ZQ9HWJDg but what did you expect would(n't?) happen?
@CatsterQed @CathyReisenwitz What would it mean to avoid manipulating others? At its most extreme, this would mean never *interacting* with others, for the simple act of conversation invariably leaves both parties changed https://t.co/yJ9KXrsGZe Heisenberg's Uncertainty Personality, if you will
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 41:45 we got kinda fucked i imagine our mind-simulators are so we can understand *each other*, but then at some point it got fucked up and we thought we had to use that tool to understand ourselves and we're just out here hammering screws like idiots
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 43:00 it feels cooler and that's why it's addictive it feels powerful to hold yourself within yourself but you're only holding the parts you can grasp grabbing a handful of water and saying "look i hold the ocean!"
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku speaking as someone hopelessly addicted to self-hosting meta-reflection *cough* https://t.co/XAic6t3L6U
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 45:00 parents, believed to be a thinker I mean in particular it's where i think this pattern gets installed in us, by our parents https://t.co/otYjn1MkYK because in order to self-REGULATE we need to be self-AWARE we need to be one step ahead in order to BEHAVE with RULES
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 41:45 we got kinda fucked i imagine our mind-simulators are so we can understand *each other*, but then at some point it got fucked up and we thought we had to use that tool to understand ourselves and we're just out here hammering screws like idiots
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku relevant to the idea of self- and other-regulation https://t.co/ZXdSYL1x5z
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku also relevant to regulation https://t.co/mWjpvNzyLT
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku stepped out for a bit, realizing that there's something intensely relaxing about listening to past-yous while typing messages to future-yous https://t.co/ijYNOE56Hy something about being spread thin making it harder to self-reflect, no time to really think or analyze just move
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 54:00 left+right eyes seeing different realities because of course they are they hook closer into different brain hemispheres anda lso hhave different positions so literally have different perspectives
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 54:30 nothing is real life is just a comic book and enlightenment is seeing the panels or maybe that's just an insight idk definitely-an-insight is realizing that there are panels to see borders of (or pages or film grain, pick your media metaphor)
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 55:30 also time also a variety of other senses each sense a new dimension, a new orthogonality of experience add 'em all up and what do you get? still not enlightnement but hey you're a bigger bubble now at least
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku anchoring each different felt sense in a very clear pattern of embodiment is essentially the entire purpose of chakras (or whichever) that and communicating said multidimensionality in a teachable manner https://t.co/pjLimlrt00
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 57:20 just let it gestate and come intuitively i read about this in zen where it's all "have you attained" yes "then clean your bowl" where you eat, but then gotta digest 57:30 the worst thing is to conceptualize it well fuck
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku nice to have handles for concepts https://t.co/MG0ulyfj2a but maybe it's just *comforting* to have handles, in the same way that a bottle is comforting to leetl bebeh
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 1:04:30 - predicting allowing feeling? oh hey there it is https://t.co/Iy0ZGqm8XE maybe i prediiiiicted you would saaay thaaat woooo~~ thinking prediction is necessary is a post-hoc rationalization for pre-hoc rationalization which is a confusion (that I hit often)
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku 1:05:45 lenses ARE fun to play with but don't glue any to your face forever 😬 1:06:20 outsmarting Hanjo ... good luck I notice this urge in myself when he drops firebombs of wisdom like... nuh uh... but then, ok maybe
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku and i notice this in Yatharth's silences afterwards, like "how do I realign what I'm saying to not get gotten" an earlier example was trying not to frame things as questions which, that flummoxing and second-guessing is sort of the entire zugzwang at play here
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku oh wait lenses hya- https://t.co/dyBwhkB5Vy
@CountJ0ecool @HanjoYoutaku I like this. Plausible. Much evidence pointing to understanding others as starting arms race of intelligence and simulation that got exapted into self-modifying, self-observing, compartmentalising selves.
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku also relevant to the topic of self-modeling: https://t.co/G1SJWT3MCe your perceptions are filtered by your self, so by understanding yourself, you can maybe account for your own biased perception
@AskYatharth @HanjoYoutaku of course the self-model that you build was built entirely by your self, so you need to debias your debiaser, and so on do we regress does the series converge? is there a fixed point? or is all that misguided and the unborn mind can just cut to the heart of it
@CountJ0ecool @HanjoYoutaku yeah, the information-gathering energy. sometimes it helps to really treat it as time to experience alongside/with. pause as much as you need. skip. focused on primacy of your experience. what’s happening?