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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago

this is the bortle scale. it's used to measure how dark the night sky is in a given place. until relatively recently in human history i imagine every human being who ever lived could see a bortle 1 sky every night of their lives, weather permitting. i personally have never seen darker than bortle 4 in my entire life, and that only happened once. when i was in college i saw a video on youtube, it was a time-lapse of a barbecue in texas or something, and the sky was around bortle 2-3. i was extremely shocked that the milky way was clearly, brilliantly visible to the naked eye, which i had never seen in my entire life and hadn't actually understood was a thing that could happen. i thought you needed a telescope or something. this is despite my having both a big glossy book about astronomy and a big glossy book about mythology in my childhood bedroom, where i had both read about the milky way as a galaxy and as a part of human mythology dating back thousands of years. it's fucking big as hell in the sky. it was much bigger than i was expecting. it has names in other languages that make this more obvious. in asian languages it's called the "river of heaven" or the "silver river." in indian languages it's called the "ganges river of the sky." it's a big fucking river in the fucking sky and you're supposed to be able to see it with your fucking eyes. here's a quote from a thread on an astronomy forum called cloudynights about what it's like to experience bortle 1, from Bob4BVM: > There are a few places where I go in certain mountain areas of far eastern Oregon to get to  Bortle 1. > One is a site at over 9500 feet on a mountain surrounded by desert with the nearest town streetlights over 100 miles away. > I will never forget the first time we were camped there. The stars were so bright & clear that the experience was like you were standing IN the dome of the heavens, not below it, the 3-D feeling was unmistakable.  Yes the stars colors were very distinct, adding to the 3-D effect. > I did however find it initially disturbing that there was a huge band of smoky haze that ran from horizon to horizon roughly following the plane of the Milky Way. I was at first offended that smoke would be messing up the great view of our galaxy. > It took a while for it to sink in, but I finally realized... what looked like 'smoke' was the huge outer halo of the galaxy, extending far above and below the bright band of the galaxy, easily tripling  its overall width.  I did not have a telescope along on that first camping trip to that mountain.  None was necessary, it would have diluted the immersive experience of just laying on my back and taking in that enormous river of stars which to its outer limits covered fully half of the visible sky from horizon to horizon. when i look at the night sky (bortle 7-9) i like to imagine being alive 5000 years ago and getting to see bortle 1 every night. i like to imagine wondering what the hell is going on with all this stuff in the sky. what is it? why does it move around like that? what does it all mean? or if i don't ask myself these questions maybe i'm chilling with a kid and they ask me. and then maybe i start telling stories to entertain the kid. and i imagine people naming the planets and the stars and the constellations, and inventing gods and monsters and astronomy and astrology, and mathematics, and physics, and eventually - well, y'know, the electric light.

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

the cloudynights thread, for reference. these guys seem fun and laid-back https://t.co/DvSM8bmCiP

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

i'm thinking that video i saw on youtube might've been of the okie-tex star party. apparently "star parties" are a thing??? this is a big famous one that's happening at the end of september??? https://t.co/tlkhSCd5Ax

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

👀 https://t.co/YA5rGgY5Bc

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

feeling some type of way looking at the light pollution map https://t.co/DBMJEcFJR5 https://t.co/0rL7P1drKP

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𝐒𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐮𝐒 𝐒𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐞@SiriusSourceabout 1 year ago

@QiaochuYuan I think about this a lot. Thanks to whoever posted https://t.co/SfCIvUVaZa

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

clarification on the image https://t.co/wD86zBkKgI

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Ryan Houchin@RyanHouchinabout 1 year ago

Good thread but just for clarification the photos on that bortle chart are very wrong. I do astro photography and have photographed from many bortle 1 locations. Milky Way with the naked eye looks closer to a 5. And the image for bortle 1 is simply ridiculous and only achievable with long exposure photography. Night sky is still awe inspiring of course, but it’s not even close to the bortle 3 image with the naked eye.

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archivedvideos@archived_videosabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan It's kind of ironic that quickly after we started understanding what was in the sky most people lost access to it

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Tricia Pickren@triciapickrenabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan I have this half-baked theory that we’d all live differently if we could see a bortle one sky regularly. I’ve seen that a handful of times and they’re some of my most vivid and wonder-filled memories. Laced with magic, except it’s the realest thing.

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @triciapickren

@triciapickren i SUPER have this half-baked theory too. i think there's a specific really vital spiritual ingredient the real actual night sky provides. i would be willing to learn how to camp to get to see bortle 1

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Jack@jackinlondonabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan gotta say sea/ocean sailing is really good for this *and* you get bioluminescence!

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David R. MacIver@DRMacIverabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan It's actually quite hard to see a Bortle 1 in a lot of the world even with access to dark skies, because if you live too far North it never gets dark enough in the summer and it's too cloudy in winter. I tried and failed to do this in the UK last summer. Need to try again.

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Bio-Emotive Framework@DougTatarynabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

Great post @QiaochuYuan. Driving back to Manitoba from a seminar in California, I awoke to my daughter Ali asking me to help navigate. It was 3:00am, she was following google maps, and I had forgotten that I had set it to "avoid freeways and highways" while we were in San Francisco. High atop a mountain (10k+ ft?), traversed via narrow gravel switchbacks, hundreds of miles north and south of any freeways, we sat in awe of the sky for hours. It was clearly a bortle 1 experience, something us prairie dweller never experience like this, even when camping far away from city lights.

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zandy@mileniusabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan You live in Oregon right? You can see Bortle 1 in the Alvord desert. It’s worth the visit before fire season starts

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @milenius

@milenius nice seems like there's a couple good places in oregon. i'm gonna work my way up slow, i'm not much of a traveler. gonna start with finding out where the best sky is within like a 30m drive of portland

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🌾🍁🍂 bosco 🍂🍁🌾@selentelechiaabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan the one thing I miss from my first marriage is that I got to see (3) every time we visited his parents in rural Oregon

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樂華@ulokwaabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan if you're curious about how dark your local skies are (and finding nearby dark sites), https://t.co/n9PZ9sPt1p is a good place to browse. the edges of my city (hong kong) only gets down to class 4 bortle!

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banana (2nd naïveté era)@bananamelterabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan It’s so interesting how these things affect people. I grew up in mostly Bortle 4, took that for granted, and found city skylines very moving and powerful. I currently live somewhere with neither stars nor skyscrapers. It’s beautiful during the day but dead at night.

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @bananamelter

@bananamelter huh cool. what did you find moving about city skylines?

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Edward Saperia@edsaperiaabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan Yeah the first time you see this you think “ohhhh, so *that’s* why people were so into astronomy back in the day.”

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Ryan Houchin@RyanHouchinabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

Good thread but just for clarification the photos on that bortle chart are very wrong. I do astro photography and have photographed from many bortle 1 locations. Milky Way with the naked eye looks closer to a 5. And the image for bortle 1 is simply ridiculous and only achievable with long exposure photography. Night sky is still awe inspiring of course, but it’s not even close to the bortle 3 image with the naked eye.

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @RyanHouchin

@RyanHouchin thanks for the clarification!

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yatharth in asheville@AskYatharthabout 1 year ago
Replying to @RyanHouchin

@RyanHouchin @QiaochuYuan ah, thanks for the clarification; i was wondering bc i have been in some dark locations keywords: milky way, bortle scale, night light pollution

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Michael Ashcroft@m_ashcroftabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan this confuses me, because I saw the night sky at 5000m altitude in a remote mountain in Peru with nothing but desert around and it didn’t look anything like as strong as on the left (also not cloudy!) I wonder what other factors there might be involved

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Richard D. Bartlett@RichDecibelsabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan bortle 1-2 really feels like you're standing on the front edge of a big rock ball racing thru enormous space

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @RichDecibels

@RichDecibels huh the internet told me was really hard to access in europe! oh fuck, right, new ZEALAND

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Richard D. Bartlett@RichDecibelsabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan NEW ZEALAND HAS ENTERED THE CHAT

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @RichDecibels

@RichDecibels imagine being a hobbit astronomer. chillest job on the planet

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𝐒𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐮𝐒 𝐒𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐞@SiriusSourceabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan I think about this a lot. Thanks to whoever posted https://t.co/SfCIvUVaZa

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no longer respecting gardenias@NLRG_itabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan im confused bc ive never seen anything like this but ive many times been to places that should have certainly been bortle 3 or better

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @NLRG_it

@NLRG_it https://t.co/x2spzLhvE2

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QC@QiaochuYuanabout 1 year ago

@m_ashcroft @Super_Dan_Dan yeah so i googled around for awhile and the main thing with the photos appears to be long exposure. but 1) this image is from the wikipedia article so i figured if it was grossly misleading someone would've removed it by now and 2) some people said you could get close...

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daniel brottman 🪷@danielbrottmanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan wow

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Gnostrils@gnostrilsabout 1 year ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan Even without the presence of city lights, the phase of the moon has a big effect on how clearly you can see the stars

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Gnostrils@gnostrilsabout 1 year ago
Replying to @moonboi_

@QiaochuYuan In fact I think phase of moon is a bigger deal because it really affects how dark the night is in a predictable way that you lose in the city. It brings one into contact with mesoscopic Time much more directly than the movement of the stars does

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