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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanover 4 years ago

The paradox I'm currently in love with: 1. existing culture is fucked up in ways I'll collectively call "A" 2. "A" is trying to fuck you up 3. "A" = "people trying to protect from being fucked up by A" 4. thus to shift "A" to "B", one must protect against "A" without protecting

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12/14/2020
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yatharth ༺༒༻@AskYatharthover 3 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean i don’t understand premise 3

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12/20/2021
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanover 3 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@AskYatharth Game A is almost entirely composed of defenses against Game A (viewed through a certain lens)

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12/20/2021
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yatharth ༺༒༻@AskYatharthover 3 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean transcend “protection” from it — the kind of protection that forever counts on the other force losing and finding “protection” from it in a way that doesn’t depend on the other force losing

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12/20/2021
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yatharth ༺༒༻@AskYatharthover 3 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@Malcolm_Ocean from a PCT perspective, this means not contributing further to “inner conflict” where another controller is trying to set to X, you’re trying to set to Y (while also not trying to break the thing) in a constant tug and instead relaxing things https://t.co/2Z1i9KiWku

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yatharth ༺༒༻@AskYatharthover 3 years ago

@Malcolm_Ocean by the way, it’s very difficult to appreciate Malcolm’s point without having read Making Sense of Behaviour: The Meaning of Control (the PCT book he’s mentioned elsewhere) https://t.co/tQvV5a2CZ5 https://t.co/dVmx87X1N3

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12/20/2021
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yatharth ༺༒༻@AskYatharthover 3 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@Malcolm_Ocean relaxing the conflict of control in a v fundamental and qualitative way that you are pointing to

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12/20/2021
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yatharth ༺༒༻@AskYatharthover 3 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@Malcolm_Ocean are you proud lol

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12/20/2021
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanover 3 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@AskYatharth Oceanic College at work haha yeah, though I'd say more about going up a level than about relaxing but if by relaxing you mean expanding awarenes (cc @m_ashcroft) then maybe

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12/23/2021
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yatharth ༺༒༻@AskYatharthover 3 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean @m_ashcroft relaxing on the level in which the expected expectation errors are set, a level higher though yes, expanded awareness seems to somehow be related to this, not sure how buddhist paths seem to pretty directly correspond to “relax the expectation that there shouldn’t be errors”

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12/23/2021
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanover 3 years ago
Replying to @AskYatharth

@AskYatharth @m_ashcroft yup yup > buddhist paths seem to pretty directly correspond to “relax the expectation that there shouldn’t be errors” this was also my thought when I first read PCT! https://t.co/aSFysnLvZq

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 6 years ago

Today, on an email thread, I spotted someone saying something about suffering (in the Buddhist sense) in term of error signals, and I just wrote up my theory from 2 years ago (lightly improved since) as a reply to that thread! (Here it is because #ErrTowardsPublishing) https://t.co/jZc9qEP2Tu

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12/26/2021
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanover 3 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@AskYatharth @m_ashcroft re-reading that, and folding in the expanded awareness stuff, I could imagine de-emphasizing "meta-error" and pointing at something more like a narrowing of consciousness onto the error itself rather than up a level... so the error gets stuck. something like that.

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12/26/2021
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Aleksi Liimatainen@aleksil79about 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean simplest solution is to have B operate on and through entities that don't exist for A while still having an impact 🤔 better yet, have A not exist for B (in a real sense, not wishing away or ignoring) to more effectively obviate need to protect

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6/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 2 years ago
Replying to @aleksil79

@aleksil79 What do you mean? You can't simply "have A not exist"...

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6/26/2023
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Aleksi Liimatainen@aleksil79about 2 years ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

@Malcolm_Ocean But *I* barely know what I mean! 🤣 Something like, B can't be perceived in frames enmeshed with A and B's defining patterns are orthogonal to A's affordances such that actions taken in A can't disrupt them

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6/26/2023
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @aleksil79

@aleksil79 I used to think this was the main path but with my NNTD insight in 2020 I came to realize that most of it has to be backwards compatible sooner or later and sooner is often actually easier

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7/14/2024
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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 1 year ago
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean

oh snap this ^ is kind of just a different articulation of the paradox of tolerance. hadn't quite noticed that before https://t.co/dHGKeWcfEB

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Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️@Malcolm_Oceanabout 1 year ago

we are collectively, at present, wrestling with the paradox of tolerance, and we would do well to recognize that the people we find hard to tolerate are doing the same from a different angle, and that this is part of what the process feels like

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7/14/2024