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im pleased to announce that ive finally become insane https://t.co/So5HCo8Iii
woh this guy is intense https://t.co/s9wFwC9BdP
@eigenrobot relax about these kinds of feedback, everything's a remix and the work you did to arrive at these conclusions has value separate from the work itself it's also way more fucking fun to build dart boards than to throw darts, imo
@eigenrobot I always took "map is not the territory" not to mean "demons aren't real" but to mean "rocks aren't real either, but that's fine all you can do is live in your map of demons and rocks". the territory is something like "atoms and the void" which are beyond your senses' perception
@moonboi_ @eigenrobot you have never perceived an atom directly. you were told that it's a thing that someone you've never met derived from indirect observation and some math. these doesn't mean that the atomic model is fake or useless, but it's very different from what you actually sense out there
@eigenrobot @moonboi_ I struggle to think of any sense in which it isn't "a map". there is literally no such thing as "raw perception", every single perception you have is made of top-down predictions meeting bottom-up error signals and those predictions come from (an implicit or explicit) model
@eigenrobot @moonboi_ you can see a building, or you can see bricks and windows, or you can see edges and patches of light and color, but even color is not "in the world" but "in" a generative model of the reflective properties of surfaces under various lighting your brain built up over time
@eigenrobot @moonboi_ when I talk about "perceiving rocks but not atoms" I'm talking about difference in experience (rocks are just immediately available when you look, while atoms are *thought* about) but this doesn't mean that what's there when you look out is "the territory" https://t.co/EHaXvmrWgZ
@yashkaf @moonboi_ i dont really have any objection to this but i predict you will get more pushback from most quarters if you say "P" instead of "Not P" where P is "rocks and demons are substantially equal as representations of reality"
@eigenrobot @moonboi_ maybe, but those quarters wouldn't necessarily include LessWrong since rationalists aren't, in fact, just a bunch of naive logical positivists https://t.co/Ag6SMcanrO
@eigenrobot No, I agree with your basic thesis. Maps are indeed of-as-in-in the territory. *And* good "maps" are less like pictures and more like focal lenses or something hyper-intentional. There's a sense in which maps are the territory. They are the territory mapped.