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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 3 years ago

a quick run-and-gun: 1. i remember reading some anecdotes about monkeys behaving in all sorts of nuanced ways socially that seemed to be more complex than how lots of contemporary people are capable of (via Dunbar's Gossip, Grooming and the Evolution of Language)

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 3 years ago
Replying to @visakanv

2. how could it be that monkeys & baboons seem in some ways more emotionally sensitive and intelligent, cunning, crafty than many humans? my suspicion: humans are surely perfectly capable of this too, but civilization systematically anaesthetises this capacity. we school it out

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 3 years ago
Replying to @visakanv

3. a notable recurring exception to this general sort of rule is that people who experience varying kinds of trauma, or people who are inherently misfit, neurodivergent, etc, experience "shock" – are shocked out of the programming of civilization. you unplug from the matrix

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 3 years ago
Replying to @visakanv

4. while it's extremely sad and bleak etc, i've always also been struck by how alert street kids are. part of it is literal trauma yes– and they are also, so much more capable than we tend to assume kids can be. there are parts of the world you can see children raising babies

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 3 years ago
Replying to @visakanv

bunch of jumping off points here... - hyperagency is a trauma response - existence might be intrinsically traumatic lol - civilization is systematic agency-dampening (potty training) – there's an agency-respecting ideal, but in practice >90% of the time autonomy is disrespected

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 3 years ago
Replying to @visakanv

have to be more precise, introduce degrees. "existence is intrinsically traumatic" is a bit of a jokey frame-shift rather than a precisely useful statement, loads of people exist, and not many people develop hyperagency...

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @visakanv

@visakanv I think its structural, its built into architecture and social systems, or even at a more fundamental level with regards to expectations an norms related to civil society. School is a symptom more than a cause IMHO.

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 3 years ago
Replying to @ultimape

@ultimape yea https://t.co/DwKeeMqgYF

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Visakan Veerasamy@visakanv• over 6 years ago

civilization is a sort of iterated, recursive potty training

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @visakanv

@visakanv One way to explore this is to look a queuing norms and how they form across different social circumstance and regions. Their history and how they form etc.This is partly due to school, but they exist in a larger milieu of Schelling points of bureaucracy dictating behavior.

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @ultimape

@visakanv Basic queuing seems to be for access to shared resources shows up in toilets, certainly. But you can also see it in stuff like queuing up for access to the baker's oven and fees charged for market stalls in a bazar.https://t.co/Q9k56jMdhQ

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 4 years ago

ლ(ಥ Д ಥ )ლ"Asking where ancient babies pooped is a deceptively simple question, but one that classicists, ancient historians, and archaeologists haven't really touched on until recently. "https://t.co/0wuL5pts3V

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @ultimape

@visakanv A lot of these used to be trained via family custom. But somewhere down the road we started using guild-systems, and then eventually schools to teach people en-masse.

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @ultimape

@visakanv I think the problem is one-size-fits-all mentality that we rebuke against. As someone who's had a bowel issue most of my life, this kinda sucks.

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4/26/2022
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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @ultimape

@visakanv Needing to fit in to a centralized system that doesn't tolerate deviance seems to be largely the factor that drives the systematic anaesthetization.Civilization itself can still run without this aspect, but we don't seem to do that way anymore.

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @ultimape

@visakanv Of course I'm coming from the lens of western schools and bathroom norms. But from what I gather, this problem seems to be common issue in school systems that operate by prescribed/wrote government mandated rubrics.

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UltimApe@ultimape• over 3 years ago
Replying to @ultimape

@visakanv But manifest differently like how queue'ing norms vary from place to place.

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