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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago

I usually refer to this as the Fight Club Effect, but is there another name for it?: Basically, that the Message of your story isn’t what you can argue in a paper, or how you wrap up the last 5 minutes or whatever—the Message is whatever most people’s takeaway is.

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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

Like in fight club, you can say that there were messages about the absurdity and hypocrisy of countercultural movements, or that the end of the movie confirms that Tyler is the bad guy, not admirable, etc,

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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

but the people walking away from that movie overwhelmingly had the takeaway that they need to be more countercultural, that Tyler was right, that society needs to be punished and destroyed, etc.

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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

So it just feels specious and avoidant to go ā€œno no no, you see, in those last 2 minutes, the clear message isā€”ā€œ ā€œOkay, last 2 minutes, sure. Now what about the hundred-whatever minutes before that? Which set of minutes probably sends a clearer message?ā€

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hart the phoenix@puheenix• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

@the_wilderless ā€œthe treatment of minorities, outsiders, and the less fortunate as though they’re second class citizens is wrongā€ ā€œhey! most of the sentence was about mistreatment & that’s badā€ yeah, but the whole point of uttering the sentence was to say the end. story meaning is the same…

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hart the phoenix@puheenix• over 3 years ago
Replying to @puheenix

@the_wilderless but you’re right, the effect of fight club is to entice you into empathizing with the ā€˜wrong’ perspective before revealing its flaws so I’d say the misunderstanding people take away from the story is their own deliberate one, not the story’s revealed preference or smth

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QC@QiaochuYuan• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

@the_wilderless tvtropes call this ā€œdo not do this cool thingā€ which i’ve always loved as a name for it. the torment nexus tweet captured something related really well: https://t.co/VSucsUUWmw

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Alex Blechman@AlexBlechman• almost 4 years ago

Sci-Fi Author: In my book I invented the Torment Nexus as a cautionary tale Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel Don't Create The Torment Nexus

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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan Lmao, I do love me the torment nexus

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QC@QiaochuYuan• over 3 years ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@the_wilderless also this discussion https://t.co/JWoZXQKAJy

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QC@QiaochuYuan• almost 4 years ago

ā€œfocus your energy on what you want to see more ofā€ has some distressing implications for the whole genre of dystopian fiction. it suggests that dystopian fiction doesn’t successfully act as a warning, and if anything makes dystopias look cooler, more familiar, more thinkable

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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan This is a big part of it, but sth closer to like… a bit of indeterminacy or unskillfulness about where your time and energy are focused. *thinking* it’s focused on one thing, but not realizing that it’s unintentionally on sth else

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QC@QiaochuYuan• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

@the_wilderless yeah def!

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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

@QiaochuYuan like fight club for example, maybe the creators did consciously want a particular message, But clearly they were subconsciously enamored with Tyler and project mayhem, and that shows through really potently

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QC@QiaochuYuan• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

@the_wilderless they cast brad pitt and everything. really wanted to make him look extremely cool and succeeded. i feel like this is a whole trend in american culture, to performatively criticize something while shadowily enjoying it

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Rudra Dakini@the_wilderless• over 3 years ago
Replying to @QiaochuYuan

@QiaochuYuan shadowily yes. This word. good.

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QC@QiaochuYuan• over 3 years ago
Replying to @the_wilderless

@the_wilderless ā€œdeath of the authorā€? https://t.co/GG8mpyI65o

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