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@CXGonzalez_ maybe better translated as: 1. the buddhist *ascetic* aesthetic doesn’t vibe with me (vs tantric/vajrayanic, which account for living in society with its passions and “poisons” while retaining qualities of enlightenment)
@CXGonzalez_ shocking vibrance, radiance, & luminosity of emotion that you may not even have reference points for v different from what the typical American person with their cultural reference points might conceptualise as “emotionally dead”
@CXGonzalez_ it’s something more like a code. don’t engage in gossip and petty things, simply because you can choose not to. passion is still beautiful compassion, loving-kindness, the luminosity of grief, etc. are still revered (in certain strains/contexts more than others)
@CXGonzalez_ removing the context where desire for things like shiny BMVs may arise in the first place, and subtitute with desire for other things, like dedicating oneself to the benefit of all beings, or wanting to meditate more, etc
@CXGonzalez_ buddhism isn’t dumb about *creating and harnessing* the meditator’s desire to continue on the path “life is suffering” is as much a pedagogical tool to keep the meditator going on the path away from their old life, as much a statement about reality
@CXGonzalez_ 4. this whole “no desires, no suffering” things maybe comes from the history of Western cultural reference points for . . . stoicism? even then, feels like a diluted, zombified version (the modern stoics) vs something some of the originals may have written
@CXGonzalez_ 5. aesthetics don’t tend to be dumb, whether the christian one, “life-loving” one, monastic one, etc; it’s hard to reject one, without having seen how it could be beautiful from a POV, and really, i do think at the bottom, it’s all aesthetics
@CXGonzalez_ > morality is an aesthetic here’s a thread with some replies https://t.co/TP3hsigDRm
@CXGonzalez_ > why we should dedicate ourselves to the benefit of all? hmm, this feels like a combative/should frame, which isn’t really the point for me at least, it’s not how someone could sell me on the aesthetic, though it seems to work for other people
@CXGonzalez_ i got sold on the aesthetic much more through just trying to follow through on the truth about existence and imo what i came up with is it’s a lot like a video game https://t.co/xHAi6Xwo9H
@CXGonzalez_ “i” am this playable character within the game. but it’s silly to think i need exclusively care about myself. i create whatever story i want to. and helping other people is a beautiful aesthetic https://t.co/jn8qNt0IC0
2️⃣ You don’t have to care about the main player. Want to care about an NPC? Invest more in their storyline than yours? Totally ok. You’ll want to keep your health stats up, naturally. But you don’t have to play for the main any more than you want to.
@CXGonzalez_ hedonism is fine, pursuing pleasure is fine no one’s chasing you https://t.co/zx1KJncWIg
@CXGonzalez_ there tends to be a thing where once you’ve truly known happiness, you tend to want something more and till you haven’t, you want happiness https://t.co/0vEZTz1Cdp
@CXGonzalez_ if you pursue pleasure, etc., happen come to diff conclusions, that’s fine https://t.co/SK6hB2t63b
@CXGonzalez_ i can’t make really it ok for you to not pursue the benefit of all beings though or for you to https://t.co/7fJT94wvmO
@AskYatharth that thread seemed to assert it was an aethetic while calling objective morality a cope due to its rigidness. but it's not at all rigid, it's fully of fuzzy judgements and intuitions! and meaning often flows from trying your best within a moral frame
@AskYatharth i also agree that happiness tends to beget altruism. in my experience, being very happy tends to result in me wanting to share that happiness with others that's where the "caring about others" comes in. "why should I?" bc you're going to want to do that once you're doing well
@CXGonzalez_ > so the "should" is always implicit, it's just a matter of having the courage to face it headon for me should ~= do this, else you’re a bad person or something like should ~= if you do this, i am making it ok for you to be i didn’t want that. that didn’t work for me.
@CXGonzalez_ that’s why i felt the need to assert something like “i can never make it ok for you. either way” https://t.co/XFw54qcH8p
@CXGonzalez_ i didn’t want to sustain the sense of self-importance in trying to defend against an egregore put differently, i wanted my autonomy-defending part to be able to rest https://t.co/SJYqpssl5u
it’s funny, because in this clip, part of the reason Frank runs back is because he is lonely because being chased by egregores enables one to sustain some kind of self-importance that substitutes for the connection one cannot get because one is lonely https://t.co/joLR0KbLsw
@CXGonzalez_ > "why should I?" bc you're going to want to do that once you're doing well the problem with this for me was that . . . when someone did say, “you tend to want contentment after you’ve known happiness,” the autonomy-protecting part of me still did yell
@CXGonzalez_ that’s why, in talking to myself, i end up saying an explicit version of “and if you come to a diff conclusion, that’s that too. im not chasing you” https://t.co/vX3I2wIlTm
@AskYatharth thats interesting i don't have that reaction personally but i totally understand it i think "giving yourself permission" to desire something else once you cross that bridge of happiness is 100% a great framing to loosen yourself up to accept whatever you actually end up desiring
@CXGonzalez_ > so i think functionally we end up agreeing we just call it different names (you call it aesthetics, i call it a system for ascribing practical judgements) but it's ultimately similar in form! all about functional similarity / similar in form :)
@CXGonzalez_ > calling objective morality a cope due to its rigidness. but it's not at all rigid, it's fully of fuzzy judgements and intuitions honestly, there’s some philosophical nuance here i haven’t really had time to properly consider. will remain silent on this for now
@CXGonzalez_ have you heard Burbea's two part talk on The Beauty of Desire? he speaks really beautifully to these pointshttps://t.co/QH8bULDgeV