Community Archive

🧵 View Thread

🧵 Thread (16 tweets)

Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago

the 1984 Newspeak hypothesis is that if you control the language you control the minds take away the right words and the corresponding thought crime simply can't be had in the first place it's on to an important idea, but is TOTALLY wrong about the mechanism

10 1
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

Newspeak/hermeneutical injustice acts less on your ability to form thoughts, and more on your common knowledge of how these thoughts relate to everyone else https://t.co/amtYjH8B9x

Placeholder
Guy HAS FINISHED WRITING THE BOOK (BETA)@nosilverv• about 5 years ago

Read this fucking shit right now and understand why your life doesn't make immediate sense to you and why you need to engage in "communal sense-making" https://t.co/3EEBYAideJ

Quoted tweet image 1
688 201
10 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

if the State Run Newspaper never runs any dissenting opinions, it doesn't prevent you from being able to not forming negative opinions of our dear leader but it DOES keep you in the dark about if anyone else has dissenting opinions. maybe you're the only one...

10 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

a thing being under-discussed makes it hard to think to the degree that you find it difficult to think without the firm backing of social reality this can be useful and harmful https://t.co/Iss0cweCjN

5 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

strong version of this claim: getting new language to describe your experience mostly makes it easier to think and feel this experience because the existence of language means others are affirming the experience. I don't think "now i've got a catchy word" actually helps much

5 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

think of the difference between how you talk about a behavior that you think is a weird personal tic of yours, vs a more archetypal behavior. for the latter there's more common knowledge about how others think about it, so it's safer

2 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

very similar to this idea. basically, other people *are* our minds, unless weird shit happens. newspeak affects you by isolating your mind from others self-delusion is about fooling others, via fooling yourself, so that you can be fooled https://t.co/JOJtKGdTCR

Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago

Main idea is that I want to reframe most "self-delusion" as something that's primarily about deluding others, because others are taken to be reality So just twist rivals thing slightly https://t.co/GvCqADwXeS

3 0
8 1
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

1) you are vaguely aware of a pattern in your experience/the world 2) you're always looking out for clues as to what possible patterns to reify 3) learning there's language for the pattern is a cue to reify

6 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

you didn't need the language, you needed a prompt/motive/justification to reify the pattern. to go from a transient observation to a unit that you think with and look for

8 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

now, language can be INCREDIBLY instrumental in -remembering the thing -spreading the thing -getting others to remember language is a primary vehicle to transmit and transform common knowledge

3 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 5 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

the point of this thread is not "language doesn't matter" it's more "language doesn't act via the mechanisms i sometimes see described. it acts via it's effects on common knowledge"

2 0
10/11/2020
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 4 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

https://t.co/8CQ8SlxFNj

Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 4 years ago

"X is good actually" is speech act that wagers your social captial to create intersubjective space for X. some of the effect is an "updating on other's minds" and I think most of the effect is "someone has said it, someone cool might say it, i can imagine being supported in X"

43 5
1 0
11/15/2021
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 4 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

some amount of gaslighting probably works by trying to change you understanding of the CK of what will be punished, rather than changing your mind on the object level https://t.co/2WrQ9UZrsV

Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• over 4 years ago

*SWERVE* k, so I think a bulk of manipulation works by changing how you believe others will interact with you trying to convince someone they're BAD for doing X involves getting them to think others think it's BAD, and will judge them so

3 0
1 0
11/15/2021
Placeholder
RomeoStevens@RomeoStevens76• almost 4 years ago
Replying to @natural_hazard

@natural_hazard One thing I didn't talk about in the thread on rich networks vs one dimensional hierarchies is that probably the most important function of a ODH is that it creates stable abuse patterns. Since there is a known pecking order, suffering can be reliably externalized down it.

2 0
11/16/2021
Placeholder
RomeoStevens@RomeoStevens76• almost 4 years ago
Replying to @RomeoStevens76

@natural_hazard In a functional deference network there is no canonical down.

2 0
11/16/2021
Placeholder
Hazard@natural_hazard• almost 4 years ago
Replying to @RomeoStevens76

@RomeoStevens76 🤔🤔🤔🤔

0 0
11/16/2021